Welcome to Hidden Answers, the Main Deep Web Forum. Please follow the rules for each category to keep this forum clear and useful.
7 like 1 dislike
Time for a complex question.

1) Assuming the system collapses completely, beyond a state where the old order can't be restored, is it inevitable that power centralizes itself again or will we see small city-states and duchies like in 15th century Europe (pic related), or even a distribution into smaller regions? Is there any way you could distribute power, so that centralization becomes more difficult or impossible?

2) What was the reason beyond the centralization of power in medieval Europe in particular? One thing history teachers often argue, why the Tsar's empire or the Prussian empire came to be, was a wish for unification led by the population, because of the unity in culture. But did they really wanted that? I'd argue the culture in the Prince-Archbishopric of Bremen and the Duchy of Bavaria are so distinct, no man would like to have them united in a great empire, because of culture? If not culture, what was then the problem why people wanted a centralized power exercised over them? Most likely it wasn't the population, but why did it happen then?

3) IMO power can't be destroyed, wherever one power cease to exist, three smaller ones spawn. When the big Roman empire declined over the course of centuries, the Rome slowly lost it's grip on power and the power continued to exist in the new empires. More decentralized, more distributed, but not gone. Do you agree with this? Can Power be destroyed in your opinion?

4) If power can't be destroyed, is it sensible to say power can be for a while (or permanently) distributed, or is it in the nature of power, that it centralizes itself over time?

5) Which role does technology play in this? If it's dependent on technology, is this development of power circular, linear or something else entirely?
in Politics, wars, problems by Expert (25.7k points)

Please log in or register to answer this question.

4 Answers

1 like 0 dislike
you ask really difficult questions.

It is impossible to destroy power. a person strives for hierarchy, this is inevitable.

Centralized power is always stronger than decentralized power.
by Experienced (5.9k points)
0 0
That's a good answer, thanks. I disagree with the last part but you are right in stating it.

My opinion is that with coercion a complex system has a tendency towards centralization of power; while by respecting property rights and individuals' consent, power/wealth tends to get distributed/decentralized. I just prefer the latter.
1 like 0 dislike
wow, how difficult this is. It feels like I'm not on the Darknet, but at a lecture at Harvard
by Newbie (187 points)
1 like 0 dislike

I see that the global system, with technological progress, has become more weak, and the collapse of this system, in my view, is only a matter of time.

If we want to understand the current state of the global system, we can divide it into three main powers that have areas of influence and some small powers that revolve in the orbit of the superpower.

Disintegration of the Great Powers
1) The United States of America: - If the federal system disintegrates, this will lead to internal and external collapses.  Internal collapses will be in the form of collapses of state administration.  What will follow is the formation of groups and militias based mostly on race and religion.  Which will fight among themselves over resources and influence.  In addition, expect attacks from groups and individuals from Central and South America out of greed for spoils and in retaliation for the current US policies on their country.

Externally, this will lead to the fall of organizations, governments, and militias.
Governments that will overthrow Mexico and many Central American countries.  Israel, Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates.  Pakistan .  Taiwan is South Korea and many North African countries.  And South Asian countries.  Likewise, conflicts will erupt in Europe between European governments competing for control, especially (Germany, France, the United Kingdom) or what remains of them.
Organizations, all United Nations institutions.  NATO, the World Bank and the International Monetary Fund.  These organizations are linked to the United States and will collapse with it. 
Militias: We will witness the disappearance of organizations such as ISIS and many Iraqi militias.  Likewise, Al-Qaeda and the Taliban.  Boko Haram.

2) Russian Federation.  It will be divided into an eastern Siberian state led by the city of Vladivostok.  It is possible to find a country in central Siberia because it is full of wealth and is home to races that feel the injustice of Moscow.  Both Tatarstan and the Caucasian republics will separate, with the possibility of uniting into a large state with the Middle East and Central Asia due to one religion, one culture, and a common history.  Western Russia is expected to be in one country with (Belarus) and eastern and southern Ukraine are under the control of Saint Petersburg.

Externally, Central Asian countries will collapse under popular pressure after Russian support for governments is exposed.  As well as the Syrian government and many African militias in Sudan, Libya and Central Africa

3) China
The collapse of China will lead to a civil war that will return those who survive to the agricultural era.  With separate societies that could unite over time, as well as the division of the western part with a Muslim minority into a country or state within a large country.

The fall of the Chinese regime will leave a huge and destructive global civilizational impact due to the stupidity and greed of the global economy that limited industry in China.  With the fall of China, humanity will have a period of time of 50 to 200 years to return to what it was.

by Newbie (313 points)
0 0
Most interesting insights. Thank you for this! I will return to this because it deserves more elaboration.
1 0
I fully agree on the internal and external strifes as you discribe them. The current system will probably tear itself apart more or less as you discribe here. The main thing to keep in mind is that all the moving parts in it where made to fail by design. I will delve more into this in this tread because it's wort exploring further.
1 like 0 dislike
I won't speculate exactly how world affairs are going to shape up over the next few decades. I'm looking at it purely from a complex system's perspective.

I agree that the established super-powers are being torn apart by concomitant internal and external forces acting to disintegrate the current system paradigm. However ultimately, these forces are the result of what economists call "transaction cost" (internal and external, the cost of any sort of transaction inside or outside a firm. Be that money, resources, information, or commands). The better power can enforced (the lower the internal transaction cost), the larger an economic organisation will get. This is why it's no coincidence that the Industrial Revolution both spurred larger States (with Nation States) and larger companies (with Gilded Age conglomerates everywhere). Because if companies can get larger in their internal processes, States can also get larger in their internal processes. States exist in anarchy alongside each other competing in their enforcement of power, so once internal transaction cost is lowered due to whatever factors, States that do not step up will get "outcompeteted", meaning invaded/left to decline.

The Industrial Revolution (and really, the Gunpowder Revolution, the collapse of the Catholic Church, and the rise of trade) led to lower [INTERNAL] transaction cost in firms. Production lines could be set up and thousands of workers could be commanded. The same way, armies could be set up that benefited from the beneficial scaling of gunpowder in combat. But since the 1990s, a different process has started playing out, the [EXTERNAL] transaction cost is falling rapidly (thus also the cost of warfare and by extension "terrorism"). Due to the internet, new manufacture technologies, and advances in technology in general, the economic cost of outsourcing has been in a free fall. This of course has effects on the State, but they are still slow to move. Communism was the first to go, which was the epitome of internal firm process orientation. The USSR collapsed in 1991 under its own weight (arguably very much the same way the EU is colapsing), the Eastern Bloc fell apart, China opened up their economy, so did Laos and Vietnam. All the proxy revolutions that the communists have been funding suddenly run out of steam or converted into something else (cultral Marxism). No matter how weird it seems, overt communism died in the 20th century but its spawn took root in the west and infected all of it, which is leading to the West's colapse. Thus I argue that the vacum that was created by the overt collapse of the Soviet block is actually tearing the West apart.

Next comes the ongoing collapse of the Nation-State. For this it's important to understand what lower external transaction costs for States mean. As States are territorial monopolies, lower external transaction costs will mean the following
1. higher rates of outsourcing their services, the State will be more likely to primarily deal with actual governance than to micro-manage a dozen services. This can occur explicitly (the lack of explicit institution for new economic sectors, regulation instead of a mandated monopoly) or in more subtle ways (the rise of people "opting out" of government services, school choice is an obvious example, but we can see the same occurring for even security).

2. lower territorial control. Another way of State size to decrease is for its territory of monopoly to decrease. We can see this happening for example with the digital nomad phenomena, increased tax evasion, and the most important part: secession. If there has been one tendency for 21st century conflict, it has been guerilla warfare and secession (take Ukraine and strife in the Russian Federation and even the US as examples). With firearms themselves becoming something a ***** can manufacture in their bedroom and $100 drones being viable on the battlefield, we see the continuation of the trend that started in the late 20th century. Due to purely economic factors, it is becoming easier to evade and oppose power than to exert it. This is similar to what Zbigniew Brzezinski (handler of Obamabongo) stated in 2008 “In early times, it was easier to control a million people, literally it was easier to control a million people than physically to kill a million people, today it is infinitely easier to kill a million people than to control a million people. It is easier to kill than to control.”

So yes, technology is pivotal and always has been. How power can be exerted depends on technological factors. Taxation is not worth anything if a peasant is hundreds of miles away, nor is it worth anything if the subject keeps it in cryptocurrency and can fly to another country for 20 euros the next day. While in the past other factors contributed to the "cost of violence" more than technological advances (terrain, famines, transportation costs), technology itself has circumvented them by now. We will see a return to a more Medieval setting, with smaller mini-states. But we'll also see a lot more inter-state activity than in the Middle Ages. It's not a future everyone will like (hence the ever growing neo-Luddite sentiments mostly by the people dependent on the Welfare State), but it's something that everyone will have to face, especially with the rise of AI. Or maybe there will be hideouts, little Welfare-States like North Korea is today. Ultimately though, they will have to enforce strict immigration requirements.

And on a latter note, large Nation-States did not exist in the Medieval Ages the same way they do today. Most peasants didn't even know about their king, so even if there was a larger "Nation" like Russia or France, it was just a unity of nobles. This was quickly phased out after the Gunpowder Revolution allowed the kings to take actual power (rather than a complex, multilayered system of barter that was the Medieval ages) in the Modern period, yet most people still confuse that with the Medieval ages.

In conclusion I think that spread-out decentralisation will be the way forward for the next stage of history.
by Expert (25.7k points)
0 0
I believe that governments seek to consolidate centralization and technology to reach every citizen.  But people are working to get rid of centralization and central government control by using technology in a different way.  

The issue here is not guesswork or astrology, but rather reading the data.  

Since you likened countries to companies, I expect that the fall of the United States of America will be the first collapse among the Big 7, because it is a bankrupt company and this is clear.  If there was a political decision from another country, it would collapse tomorrow.

 But what is being practiced now is the soft overthrow or the quiet overthrow of the United States.  by BRICS.  As well as the hostility of the African and South American peoples and the Islamic peoples in (North Africa, the Middle East, Central and South Asia) because of decades of plundering of their wealth.  It reduces the life span of the United States of America and the governments cooperating with it that rule these peoples.

 The internal American conflicts between Democrats and Republicans have become unnatural, as have the internal conflicts between the people, many of whom have begun to distrust the government and other forms of racial discrimination that the indigenous citizens feel, as well as what the Muslim, Mexican, and African citizens feel, and let us be honest, many people have become aware of.  Control, control, and money are in the hands of the Jews, who constitute 2.5% of the American population, and this is another motive for self-fall.
1 0
Spot on, that's a brilliant comment.

Yes the backlash on the jews will be a hilarious thing to witness, just look at the conservative talking points cropping up in (((Davos))) over the last few days. These things where unthinkable before.
0 0
ooooh btw about your astrology comment I beg to differ. Paraphrasing JP Morgan - Becoming a millionaire is easy, becoming a billionaire requires Astrology
...